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Fritz Klein passed
away on May 24, 2006. This is the last interview
he gave, just before he learned he was ill.
The interview was conducted over dinner
and email in March and April of 2006. I
knew Fritz personally since 1993 when I
organized some speaking engagements for
him as part of the Bisexual Speakers Bureau
in New York City. Fritz was one of the happiest
and most joyful people I have ever known.
He was a pillar of the bi community for
over 30 years, since 1974. The bi community
and myself personally will miss him deeply.
Q.
You've published several books but this
is your first novel...when did you decide
you wanted to try your hand at fiction?
A.
Many years ago -- I began it in the '80's.
It took three years to finish and then I
tried to get it published. Seven publishers
declined it so I put it in a drawer -- very
typical things for writers to do. About
five years ago, I went back to it and for
two years --not full time-- I edited it
and tightened it to make it better. I had
help from an editor friend in New York.
After I finished editing it, I presented
it to Haworth Press for whom I am editor
of the Journal of Bisexuality. After a year
of back and forth negotiations with an editor
of theirs they accepted it.
Q.
What was your writing schedule like? Were
you disciplined about it or just spontaneous?
A.
I was quite disciplined: two to three hours
every morning I would sit at the computer
and write.
Q.
One of your two main characters, Paul, becomes
a psychiatrist but is also an accomplished
actor. Have you ever dabbled in acting?
Was there someone who inspired a character
with two very different but simultaneous
professions?
A.
I dabbled in acting in a small way. In 1963
I played two small roles in Lysistrata in
Sydney Australia. I also took a class in
improvisation. I never considered myself
an actor. There was no one I have known
personally who I based this character on
with two professions but I have always thought
that the two careers are very complementary
and help each other.
Q.
Your other main character comes to see Paul,
the psychiatrist, because he is bothered
by his constant erections and is continually
seeking sex several times a day...basically
he is a sex-addict. You named this character
"Randy." Was that a little "author's
joke?"
A.
Yes - I wanted to get a smile from the reader
that his name fits him both for better or
worse.
Q.
One of your main characters has trouble
getting it up and the other can't keep it
down! It's an interesting contrast for a
novel. How did you come up with that idea?
A.
I liked the idea that the therapist learns
from the patient, also, not only the patient
learning from the therapist. Paul, learns
from Randy how to be more sexual while Randy
learns from Paul, his therapist, how not
to make everything about sex...that there
are other ways to relieve anxiety.
Q.
You wrote the chapters on Paul in the third
person but in chapters about Randy you switch
to the first. Most novels are written in
one or the other but not both...what prompted
that choice?
A.
I wanted to differentiate between the two
main characters, especially as they are
both men and because I skip back and forth
from one to another. I did it to help the
reader differentiate who we are talking
about.
Q.
The character, Paul, speaks several languages.
You've done a lot of traveling; do you speak
other languages as well?
A.
Yes, I speak German fluently, a little Yiddish,
very little Italian.
Q.
What made you want to set part of the book
in Switzerland? From the book, you seem
quite familiar with Swiss culture, especially
the food, as well as the landscape. How
much time have you spent there and how have
you acquired that level of familiarity?
A.
I lived in Bern, Switzerland for 6 years
studying medicine. Psychiatry was actually
my second career. I already had an MBA but
realized I didn't want to continue on that
path. When I came to that decision I had
passed the deadline to apply for medical
schools in the USA here so I applied to
Bern and got in.
Q.
What language did they teach in at your
Swiss med school?
A.
In German - not the Swiss dialect but what
they called "High German".
Q.
Did you know the language already? How did
you learn it? How did you have the chutzpah
to apply to a medical school that didn't
teach in your own language?
A.
I was born in Vienna so until the age of
six I spoke German. When the family moved
to New York I only spoke English but felt
comfortable in learning the language once
again. I spent some months in Hamburg to
study the language so when I began medical
school I had a basis of German. I kept studying
it diligently especially the first year
there.
In addition, many of
the textbooks were in English which helped
a lot.
Q.
In the book, Paul attends a Passover seder
at his mentor Carl's apartment that includes
Easter egg decorations. My family celebrated
Hannukah and Christmas--at least the secular
part of Christmas: a tree, Santa Claus and
presents. Where did your family fall on
the jewish continuum when it came to observances?
Would they have made those kind of combinations
or considered them blasphemous?
A.
They were Orthodox Jewish so, of course,
they would not do or think of such a thing.
Q.
Randy committed one of the worst crimes
in a jewish family...he marries a shikse!
(yiddish term for non-jew.) Can you say
shikse for a guy or only a woman? Is there
a comparable term for a guy?
A.
A gentile man is called, "goy"
and a gentile woman, "shikse."
Q.
His mother threatens to sit Shiva for him-the
ultimate threat in a jewish family. Can
you explain sitting Shiva?
A.
The Orthodox way for ritual grieving in
the Jewish religion is to sit "Shiva"
for seven days where mirrors are covered;
one tears the clothing you wear, usually
in the lapel; no music or shows, etc. and
you sit at home--usually the parent's home,
if possible, if a parent has died. If they
do it while you are still alive it's like
saying "you are dead to me."
Q.
As a bisexual person, did you ever worry
about this kind of threat?
A.
No, I personally never worried about it
in my family that they would do that to
me though the threat is always there in
the background.
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Q.
Paul, the psychiatrist character, has two
children. Was there ever a time that you
wanted to have children? Do you regret not
having them?
A.
Yes, when I was younger I did think I would
like some children. There were two different
relationships with women where we were discussing
it, however, those relationships broke up
before we got to that stage. But I don't
have any regrets that I never had them.
Q.
Paul does his dissertation on impotence.
What was yours on?
A.
In Switzerland, there is no dissertation
per se. However, my major emphasis in medical
school was sex therapy which included the
new, at that time, method of Behavior Modification.
Q.
This sounds interesting...what was this
new method and how does it work? What conditions
or problems does it treat? Is it still considered
the premiere method? Or have others supplanted
it?
A.
Behavior Modification are methods that therapists
use to sensitize patients to new ways of
acting. It is mostly used for phobias at
the present time. Neuro-Linguistic-Programming
has supplanted it as the main method for
helping people change their behavior in
a short period of time.
Q.
Part of the story was set in New York City.
I'm a New York City girl so I enjoyed all
the references to familiar places like Central
Park and the Metropolitan Museum. But my
favorite reference was a place unique to
New York (and Philadelphia) that no longer
exists: the Automat.
A.
Yes, I remember the 42nd St. branch quite
well and liked going there often until they
closed it.
Q.
Sex seems to have gone out of fashion in
novels these days...what made you want to
bring it back? Was it to blend with the
period you were writing about — the
60's and 70's — or are you just a
fan of sexy novels?
A.
It wasn't a conscious decision to 'bring
it back'. I'm a sex researcher and have
dealt with sex on a professional basis right
from the start. I also enjoy sexy novels.
Q.
Were there particular authors that inspired
you? Especially in terms of the themes or
writing style of your book?
A.
The short answer is 'no' -- no special writer.
I enjoy reading fiction and probably have
been influenced by good writers in all different
genres.
Q.
Are you planning another novel? Any idea
what you'd like to tackle this time?
A.
Several ideas keep floating around in my
mind. Nothing specific yet - but it might
be a science fiction novel as I enjoy them
quite a bit.
Q.
I'm curious about how you invented the Klein
Sexual Orientation Grid that you are so
famous for. What was the process?
A.
It was a culmination of talking to hundreds
of bisexuals in the Bisexual Forum in New
York where the question of sexual orientation
and bisexuality kept coming up. It became
obvious after a while that sexual orientation
is more complicated than Kinsey's scale.
Q.
I'm curious how you fit onto the grid?
A.
My personal place would be considered that
I am a Bi-Gay - closer to the gay side of
bisexuality rather than the heterosexual
end of the continuum.
Q.
Now that we have started defining bisexual
orientation a bit differently to accommodate
attraction to transgender people...have
you ever thought about modifying the grid
to fit them in somehow?
A.
Yes, it really doesn't work with transgender.
At the time I developed it, people discussed
bisexuality in terms of men and women. Adding
attraction to transgender people is more
recent. I don't know how to do it so I leave
it to the next generation to figure it out
how to fit it on there.
Q.
It would probably have to be four dimensional
for it to work.
A.
Yes...four dimensions!
Q.
Going back to the Bisexual Forum in New
York in the 70's...how did that get started?
Were you there from the beginning?
A.
I began it in 1974 when I could not find
information about bisexuality in the New
York Public Library. I put an ad in the
Village Voice and had bisexuals come to
my place every week to discuss their own
bisexuality as well as bisexuality in general.
Q.
I had heard about the Forum but I didn't
realize that you started the whole thing!
What was it like?
A.
We met weekly for discussion and it very
quickly also turned into a support group.
We had around 15 -20 people show up every
week.
Q.
That's exactly how bi groups work now! You
could be describing BiRequest or any other
bi group I've been to. You created the blueprint.
What happened to the Bisexual Forum, though?
A.
It continued under the leadership of Chuck
M. for quite a number of years. When AIDS
hit, it ended in 1982.
Q.
What made you decide to leave New York?
Did you go straight to California?
A.
It was time for a change for me - I found
New York too stressful and wanted better
weather and a more laid back lifestyle.
Found it in wonderful San Diego.
Q.
So now that you are retired from Psychiatry...what's
new in your life?
A.
I changed to Life Coach and have a couple
of clients. Also I continue to be editor
of the Journal of Bisexuality as well as
keep my two bisexual websites up-to-date:
Bisexual.org
and biMagazine.org.
In addition, I'm very happy with Tom, my
life partner of 4 years.
Q.
What do you think is your legacy to the
bi community? To the world?
A.
I don't think along those lines. Leave it
to historians to figure that out. I live
in almost always "the now."
In
Memoriam – Dr. Fritz Klein
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